Perfectionism Is Fear with Better Branding (WOOM 11/11/25)

Transcript

00:00:00 Darius: Welcome to Out the Trunk with Jordan and Darius. This is our What's On Our Mind segment where we like to discuss what's on our mind. Our musings go around pop culture, what we've seen on the internet, different things like that. But before we get started, your younger siblings, you're the oldest, right? Yeah. So your younger siblings just celebrated a birthday. Do you want to age them or what do you want to do?

00:00:24 Jordan: Yeah, it's cool. Yeah, they're not old, so it's fine.

00:00:26 Darius: Fair enough. How old are they?

00:00:28 Jordan: Yeah, they turned 32.

00:00:30 Darius: Okay. Happy 32nd birthday.

00:00:33 Jordan: Yeah, Brandon and Brianna slash Phil and Lil.

00:00:35 Darius: Okay.

00:00:36 Jordan: Wishing you guys much success and blessings and all the happiness that your heart and your hands can hold. Yeah, so twins were in my family. It's actually, actually learned some family history recently. So my grandmother who passed was a twin, an internal twin. And then my great grandfather had two sets of twins. So yeah, so shout out to the twins. Love you guys and keep moving forward.

00:01:01 Darius: Happy birthday to Brianna. Is it Brianna or Brianna?

00:01:06 Jordan: Brianna.

00:01:06 Darius: Brianna and Brandon from out the trunk. So we're going to move along. The starlet is a starlet of the of the recent Sydney Sweeney just did an interview on with GQ, right.

00:01:25 Jordan: Yeah, I think it was GQ.

00:01:26 Darius: Yeah, And it went viral because I guess, why did it go viral?

00:01:34 Jordan: Well, so she's, there have been like, she's basically been like breadcrumbing racism for the last few years, more or less. Like people have kind of found out stuff about her family and who they support and things of that nature. And then there was the, the American Eagle ad with the eugenics.

00:01:55 Darius: Time out.

00:01:56 Jordan: Messaging.

00:01:57 Darius: Well, Jeans Jeans is not a eugenics message. If you thought that was eugenics, you are mentally ill, you should go.

00:02:05 Jordan: See a psychiatric help. Well, so it was viewed as that, or people said it could be viewed as that.

00:02:13 Darius: The mentally ill. Hyper online, mentally ill people thought that she's an attractive woman. American Eagle makes jeans. She has good jeans. Jeans, jeans is a pun. If you think, if you read anything deeper into that, seek professional help. Something is wrong with you. Carry on.

00:02:33 Jordan: Well, yeah, so, and I think there was one or two other things that happened or people she would has been seen with or aligned herself with that have problematic views or history. I can't remember all the details, so I'm off the cuff, so sorry guys. But the interview basically was just kind of like, hey, so like people kind of thought that commercial could be seen as propaganda for, you know, blonde hair, blue eye, you know, experiment type **** basically, you know, like now it's kind of a weird time to be joking around about like white people and having better genes, don't you think? And then she was like, No. not literally, but that was just the energy she had, in the interview. And the interviewer was like, well, I mean, some people may view that as like, could be it as like offensive or maybe you like not, do you want to clear anything up type **** And she was like, when I have something I want to say, I'll say something. And just like with a straight, just with a deadpan after that, just like, and everybody was just like, what? Like, people been kind of giving their slack, like for a long time, And this really popular TikToker, he was like, okay, she might actually be racist guys.

00:03:45 Darius: Like, if she wasn't such a bad actor, she would have made a fan of me out of this interview because you don't have to participate in these humiliation rituals. Like, You don't have, I just love that she was like, no, I'm not doing this. I'm not participating in your humiliation ritual. I'm not pretending this is 2018 Twitter where you can just like, no, I saw some guy was like, this is a PR disaster for her. And I'm like, dude, I just left the theater to see Bulgonia.

00:04:19 Jordan: I think her acting is the PR disaster, actually.

00:04:22 Darius: She's not a great actor, but I was like, I just left the movie to see Bulgonia. Great movie, by the way. She had two trailers in the movie, in addition to the movie that's already currently in theaters.

00:04:34 Jordan: I was just like, which is bombing like crazy.

00:04:37 Darius: That's because she's not a good actress. But it's like, what planet are you on where this is like, she's like an embattled person. It's just. There's a certain segment of like stuck in 2018 hyper online progressive that still thinks they have cultural power. And I just love that she was just like, no, you don't run **** anymore. I'm not gonna participate in your humiliation.

00:05:03 Jordan: That **** did look nuts. I was like.

00:05:04 Darius: She was like, nah, nah, nah.

00:05:06 Jordan: That was, that was crazy. I'm like, that **** was nuts. She was like, no. Because it wasn't do I do I think like I don't do I think she wrote the ad obviously not like do I think she knew how it was going to come across? Probably not. She don't seem like super bright to me.

00:05:21 Darius: That's the other thing. Does anyone think she's?

00:05:23 Jordan: Yeah, I don't think she's calculated enough to even pull that off, quite frankly. But it was like the interview was like jokingly like, there's a scene from Succession. Have you seen that show?

00:05:34 Darius: No, I haven't.

00:05:35 Jordan: Where one of the characters, like, there was a guy who was rumored to, they thought he was like, had some nice views that he's like, hey, so there's a little bit of conversation around you. I just want to ask you a couple of questions. He's like, all right, cool. He's like, so MeinComp, have you read it? And he's like, yeah, a couple of times. And he's like, didn't pick up on everything the first time you read it. He's like, no, I just kind of wanted to reread it again. I'm a big history buff, you know. And he's like, no, he goes, I'm a big World War 2 buff. He's like, oh, really? He's like, yeah, you know, a lot of people died. It was really a tragedy. He's like, he starts listening to people that died and he's like, 2 million Poles, 8000 Russians, and he's so such that whatever. And he's like, I think there's like one group you're kind of like forgetting. And he's like, I think you're a little short on the till there. Like, you know, it just it was very much had the same energy as that scene.

00:06:19 Darius: So it's like. I forget who the tweeter was. So I want to credit it, but he was just like. The journalist was confused because in the journalist's world, this is normal. Like to just start conversations like, hey, before we get started, would you like to denounce white supremacy? Like that's ******* weird. Like, yeah. But in this like super progressive GQ writer world, she thought she was doing Sydney Sweeney a favor. She was like, I'm gonna give you a chance to clear it up. Yeah, here we go. And Sydney was just like, no. And it was like she froze. She had no idea.

00:06:53 Jordan: She didn't know what she had no plan B. She had no like.

00:06:57 Darius: She just it was just so funny to me. Because it was just like, because in her world, all Trump voters are like pickup truck driving like rednecks that they aren't real people. They're characters on the TV screen. And she just couldn't. She thinks Sidney Sweeney is like a real person. So she's like, here's your chance to prove you're a real person. And then he was like, I'm not participating in this. I just my question is, who are these rituals for?

00:07:24 Jordan: I don't know.

00:07:26 Darius: I mean, when you see like these Land announcement, land acknowledgments and before we get started, would you like to denounce white supremacy? And if she said, sure, I denounce it. Who? It ain't for me.

00:07:41 Jordan: Who's helped by that? Right, Who's it for? Don't do ****. Don't do **** for her. Good point, because they don't do **** for us. And honestly, I wouldn't believe her anyway. So there's that.

00:07:50 Darius: It's just, I just always want to know who this stuff is for.

00:07:54 Jordan: Yeah. Well, I mean, I think we know who it's for. I mean, I think it's for The it's for the liberal whites. Let's call it. Let's just I'm just going. Okay. It's for the liberal whites. It's for the moderate whites. It's for the it's for the what I call the Birmingham letter whites. You know what I mean? It's so they can feel like they're they can posture and make it seem that they're actually an ally. when in theory, they're probably more aligned with the people they're trying to grandstand against than they want to admit, in my opinion. And I'm not saying all, I'm just saying some.

00:08:26 Darius: I don't really think that lady's moderate. I think she's one of those.

00:08:30 Jordan: She probably was, but.

00:08:31 Darius: No, I think the interviewer is just like one of those super progressive, you know, people who. She probably has very few actual black friends, but she's like constantly talking about racism and black or white supremacy and such and so forth. And because that's all it is. It's not for me. Like, so if you denounce white supremacy to this one white lady to this one white lady, like that's just elite white signaling. So like, why I'm with her in that? No, I'm not going to participate in this humiliation of white person signaling exercise that doesn't actually help any minorities you purport to represent. It's silly.

00:09:16 Jordan: I would be with you if I felt I'd be with you if I felt like that was why she was doing that. Why? That's I don't think that's the reason why she wasn't announcing it. I think it was because she is on that side.

00:09:27 Darius: The evidence is what though? She used the pun in an ad and she has a racist, she has a Trump family members.

00:09:36 Jordan: So she's, do you know she's from the show Euphoria?

00:09:38 Darius: I don't watch the show, but I've heard it.

00:09:41 Jordan: Well, so she's on the show. She's one of the kind of breakout stars of the show. Obviously, it's a Zendaya show, so she's, you know, the big dog. And she's also a producer on the show. I've read like several reports that Zendaya does not do press, has like requested to not do press with her, things of that nature. leads me to believe that there's some **** there that we don't know about, going on behind the scenes or that she knows something that we don't. Again, I don't know. This is all speculation is all bread crumbing. So, but the interview, it was a crazy look. But things are, it's a crazy time right now. So I don't think that it's abnormal for, I think she's from Iowa, I want to say. Spokane is in Iowa, right?

00:10:20 Darius: No, Spokane is in Wyoming.

00:10:21 Jordan: Or Washington. Wyoming.

00:10:23 Darius: Wyoming. No, Spokane is in Washington. Spokane is Washington.

00:10:27 Jordan: Okay. Yeah. So she's from a different part of the country. And I wouldn't be I don't find it groundbreaking that a white person from that part of the country may have certain views.

00:10:38 Darius: So I just I appreciate that she didn't participate in these silly rituals. I think people are just not used to the apolitical celebrity. And they're used to every celebrity and every group and every organization taking like a, making a political stance. And I don't think, I mean, I don't know this woman, but I doubt she has any strong political beliefs at all. She's like, I'm ******* acting in a boxing movie. Why are you asking me to denounce white supremacy? Like what, like what, like what is that? First of all, honestly, I think it was a work. I think the GQ part, I think she, These celebrity interviews, they're pre-flighted. They know the questions. Right, Okay.

00:11:23 Jordan: Yeah. You think it was content?

00:11:24 Darius: Yeah, of course. Cause GG got what they want. Sydney Swinney gets to remain apolitical and the journalist. I don't know why she signed up for that. She didn't get anything out of that. She got, she went by also poor. I feel bad for her because now people think she's a ****** journalist. People think she's a ****** journalist and like, I'm not. She's a. A decent looking woman, but next to a movie star, like the visual contrast of her like being confused next to Sidney Sweeney is just like a, it's just not like, well, she looks regular if she's next to a movie star. And then she's making these grimacing faces that go viral.

00:12:07 Jordan: And it's like, I think Sidney looks pretty regular.

00:12:11 Darius: I mean, by movie star standards, I mean, sure, but I wouldn't kick her out of my bed. No. So I mean, I don't know. Like I do. I think she's like a bombshell.

00:12:24 Jordan: No, she is not a bomb. Yeah. You know, she's no, you know, but for Lawrence or whatever.

00:12:31 Darius: She's not a great actress. No, I think that's the reason.

00:12:37 Jordan: Go ahead. I will say I think her body is a big reason behind her success. I'm going to be honest with you. know, yeah, that's really if you watch your four year like her Her chest is out more than most cast members' faces are in that show.

00:12:52 Darius: Well, that's never happened in Hollywood before. Right.

00:12:56 Jordan: Oh, no, for sure. That's a common thing. Yeah, of course. It's like her chest is equivalent to like Margot Robbie's *** in Suicide Squad.

00:13:02 Darius: Yeah, that was like a main character. No, I just, right. I think people, again, have not adjusted to the cultural shift in this light. These celebrities aren't going to play your games anymore. They don't have to anymore. They didn't, their hearts probably weren't in it in the 1st place. And she just like, she's probably just like, no, I'm apolitical. I haven't, you know, I don't campaign for either side. I'm not going to participate in these rituals and I'm here to promote a movie. Do you want to talk about the movie? I can do that.

00:13:35 Jordan: Yeah. So let me ask you this. And so I know like a lot of people, different celebrities have come out and kind of tacitly shown their allegiances, I'll say, to one side or the other. And a big kind of Trojan horse for that was like the Charlie Kirk incident, whatever. And we kind of learned that some, a lot of, I was shocked by some of the celebrities that, were aligned with that. And so I want to ask you, do you think that she's in the minority or in the majority in terms of like what we perceive to be her actual views are?

00:14:10 Darius: Well, I mean.

00:14:14 Jordan: No, I'm sorry. I mean, not, no, I don't mean in terms of like the country. I mean like Hollywood.

00:14:21 Darius: No.

00:14:21 Jordan: Like a lot of celebrities and actors, they, posture as, you know, whatever the case may be. I just wanted to know what your thoughts, what you think of that.

00:14:34 Darius: Currently apolitical. And we, in these times, you people just assume that means Republican. She could just be apolitical. I know plenty of apolitical people. Yeah, I wouldn't, it wouldn't shock me if, first of all, you're selecting for rich people who generally don't like their taxes increased. And yeah, it wouldn't shock me if a lot of them just voted their taxes, if more than anything else. A lot of voters are self-interested and a lot of people don't understand or haven't adjusted for is Trump has been a political figure for a decade now. He's not a fringe politician. He's not even like supporting him is no longer taboo. And so, you know, like you just, it would not shock me if a lot of Hollywood just was like, you know, this guy's gonna keep my taxes. I don't really care if he's, you know, impolite or, you know, going to deport a bunch of people. I just want my taxes low. I mean, that's what Dave Portnoy said. That's what it just so like there's a there's a new centrist podcast out called Central Air, right? It's with Josh Carroll, Megan McArdle, and Ben Dreyfus, just two centrist political writers, right? And Someone made the good point. They're like, we're the center, we're the normies of politics. You know, some made the good point that all three of you guys are Kamala Harris, but we're voters. How can you have a podcast purporting to be the center of American politics and not have one person that voted for Trump whom won the election? Like by definition, you can't be a center normie podcast if you don't have, if you're branding this as the center of American politics. We're the normie podcast. We're not like the crazies over here. We're not the crazies over there. But all of you are Kamala voters and she lost. So how can you be center of American politics normie podcast when you don't have a single Trump voter on here? And it's like, that's what I mean. Like people still have not adjusted for like you, these are people who claim to be normal, normal centrist people. We're going to, you know, we're not going to Medicare for all, we're not doing that. We're not for open borders, but you don't have a single, not a single one of you voted for Trump. And it's like, well, you can't run a, like, that's how skewed it is. And that's kind of what that lady went through on the journalist. It's like, she's such, she's in such that bubble that like, she just couldn't believe like being neutral is a Trump.

00:17:12 Jordan: Yeah, she was shocked by.

00:17:13 Darius: She was just completely thrown away because the only people she talks to. are AOC supporters, like she doesn't even understand, like there's a whole world where Trump is still a taboo friend figure and just not denouncing him is in and of itself political to her?

00:17:30 Jordan: Yeah, it reminded me of, do you remember the SNL sketch about the 2016 election, the year Trump won it, where it had Chris Rock and Dave Chappelle, and they're like at a watch party for the election, and they're kind of like, remember it started out like Hillary was winning, And then it started to go downhill. And then so the white members of the sketch, they were like, my gosh, what is going on? It's so shocking. And Chris and Dave are like, really? Like, and then, they're like, my goodness, I can't believe we're in such a racist country. And they're like, yeah. So it's kind of reminded me of a, it reminds me a lot of that where, you know, we do tend to isolate, not isolate ourselves, we tend to surround ourselves in an echo chamber. Now we're minority, so I think it's for us is more so a form of safety. But I think there are cons to that, obviously, given what's going on. But I mean, I struggle with, okay, it's like, what's the middle ground and how do we not how do we coexist, but what's the difference between coexisting and engaging?

00:18:40 Darius: Well, for starters, you you cannot just assume everybody who voted for Trump is racist. The simple fact that a lot of people voted for Biden and then voted for Trump. A lot of people just wanted the 2019 economy back. Inflation is just that bad. And so obviously a healthy percentage of Trump supporters are, you know, racist, for lack of a better word.

00:19:05 Jordan: But white hoods, let's just call a spade a spade.

00:19:07 Darius: But like you have to understand that a lot of people were Hillary Biden Trump supporters because They looked at it and they're just like, okay, I'm sick of these humiliation rituals. I'm sick of these land acknowledgements. I'm sick of these da da da da da. Everything's expensive. This infrastructure build, nothing got built from it. When Trump was president in 2019, the economy was objectively good until COVID came. So I'm gonna give him another shot. And swing voters are by definition idiosyncratic people because like as a lifelong Democrat vote blue, no matter who is bizarre to me that someone would just, I don't like the price of eggs. I'm going to change who I vote for. But like those are the people who decide to like, right. And they're not, they're not watching every press conference and so on and so forth. So it just goes back to the meat like with that podcast that of the centrist podcast, like you can't have, it's not possible to have a centrist podcast without one person on it that voted for Trump because by definition, if you don't have anyone who voted for the guy that won, you're not the center of American opinion on politics. Like that's just not how, that's not what that word means. You know, like it's that you can't, that's not what that word is.

00:20:20 Jordan: They're just like rebranding liberalism, basically.

00:20:22 Darius: You're just a Democratic podcast. Yeah. You know, so I think.

00:20:28 Jordan: It's basically just saying like we're the good ones pretty much.

00:20:30 Darius: Yeah, it's like we're not like the crazies over there. But you didn't call your podcast not like the crazies over there. You said this is a centrism. It's actually, I thought the name was great. It's called Central Air. But no, I mean, I don't know. I can't, I don't know Sydney Sweeney. I can't peer into her soul. But the information given to me about her affiliations is flimsy at best. And I just think that you're not going to get far accusing every apolitical person of being MAGA. Like she has not, obviously she could, yeah. And she could play the game and come out and say, no, I voted for Kamala, da da da da. But if she doesn't want to, I don't care.

00:21:14 Jordan: True.

00:21:15 Darius: You know, she's just not participating in it. And, you know, I don't, that stuff isn't, isn't for me. So I don't know who it's for. It's just, right. It's like the very definition of virtue signaling to me.

00:21:30 Jordan: It was, but I think in this regime, it was funny because I think she genuinely thought like, I'm going to, I think she could tell in her head, she's like, I'm assuming you were taking out of context. She thought she was like, what do you really mean? she really thought like that was autocorrect, right? That's really what she was basically saying. And to me was like, no, I sent that text.

00:21:52 Darius: It's like, no.

00:21:54 Jordan: That **** was crazy.

00:21:55 Darius: And then she like, she was like hard reset, like her screen froze. And she was like, well, some people, and she was just like, yeah, when I feel like talking about that, I'll talk about that. But I'm dropping this movie, Christie.

00:22:08 Jordan: Yeah.

00:22:09 Darius: I almost went and saw it. But I'm going to go see everything Jesse Plymouth does. I'm going to pull up on him.

00:22:18 Jordan: By the way, I did not know he was with, I think he has a kid with Kirsten Dunst. They're like together. I think, is she in a movie with him? Or is there a movie that they meet together?

00:22:25 Darius: It's Emma Stone.

00:22:26 Jordan: Oh, okay. That's okay. Yeah, I probably him and her did a movie together. I got to check that out because I think she's phenomenal as well.

00:22:32 Darius: It's a good movie, man. It's look, you know, it's a movie goer. It's like a thriller. It's It's just three people. Cheers. It's three people in a house just acting their ***** off. So, okay, basically.

00:22:52 Jordan: I **** with that. I mean, it's got to it's means it has good dialogue.

00:22:54 Darius: Yeah. Emma Stone is the CEO of a tech company, I think. And Jesse Clemons and his cousin are his cousin is disabled, mentally disabled. I don't know the correct words. I know I can't say the R word, but you know.

00:23:10 Jordan: Yeah.

00:23:11 Darius: And Jesse Plemons is a conspiracy theorist and they kidnap her because they think she's an alien. And it's just like 4 days in the house of just dialogue where they have her held hostage. And so, two hours, you know, if you, know, if your idea of a great movie is Fast and the Furious, probably not for you, but for the people, if you like, if you're listening to this, you probably like movies. So go see it. Yeah. So I liked it though.

00:23:37 Jordan: Yeah. Okay. We're talking about Kobe New. Random.

00:23:41 Darius: Go ahead.

00:23:42 Jordan: Yeah, real quick. Random *** thought because you brought up how we can't say the R words. I watch a lot of content and stuff during work to kind of get through the day because otherwise I'm just in a silent room by myself typing and that just makes me feel like I'm in jail. And so I watch like movie reaction, like mashups and compilations and stuff. I was watching the Drop of Thunder cuts and stuff And it's so crazy watching that movie now because there's the scene where he goes, he goes, don't go full R word. And like hearing it now, it almost feels like a cuss word. Like it feels like a slur compared to how we just used to throw that word around when we were young.

00:24:18 Darius: Well, so look, that one is making a slow comeback. That's part of like the cultural readjustment. Right. The language police lost that one. But For me, the one that screams is listen to a rap song and hear the F word and not ****. Yeah, I'm like, that one actually hurts my ear.

00:24:38 Jordan: No, it's actually crazy. Yeah, there's a Wayne verse. A Millie Wayne's like, also call me Dennis Rodman.

00:24:47 Darius: Look at me now.

00:24:48 Jordan: And I'm like, damn, we just said that. No, well, that one too. Yeah, that one too.

00:24:53 Darius: The word was ubiquitous. It was everywhere. It was.

00:24:55 Jordan: It was. It was everywhere. It was just.

00:24:56 Darius: It was just like calling someone stupid.

00:24:58 Jordan: 50 use it a lot. 50 use it a lot.

00:25:01 Darius: It's just, you know, language evolves. And if you go and watch a movie written, not even a movie, if you just listen to like, it was not at all atypical for like white people amongst themselves to call us ******* or colored people.

00:25:19 Jordan: It's in this movie we're about to do.

00:25:22 Darius: That's like calling people black. You know, like it was like, and so they knew the N word was bad, but it took a while for us to add colored people and ***** to the lexicon of bad words. And, you know. Took a while for us to get that F word into the lexicon of bad words. No, it did. It did. It did. It did. And look at me now, it's not that old. So, you know, it's.

00:25:46 Jordan: No, it's like what, 10, 11, 12 years old, maybe? Like, yeah.

00:25:50 Darius: But it goes

00:25:51 Jordan: like that song came out.

00:25:52 Darius: To land a plane on the original conversation about like the cultural norms, I think people, people like us who are left of center, you're a bit more left than me, but just like, underestimate just how much the cultural norms have changed since I would say 2016. And there's been a bit of a clawback from that. And a lot of people are still stuck in the old days where they haven't adjusted for the clawback. Because if Sydney Sweeney does that interview in 2018, there's actual social consequences for it. But the culture has shifted a little bit. And I think it's shifted for the good. This whole thing, like, if she actually says something insane, if she actually, if she spoke at the RNC or something, okay, I'd hear you out. But one, again, the jeans, jeans thing, seek help. She has some family members that donated to. My only complaint is, I mean, okay, one white person doesn't. Like, you know, like, right. Her and the day it didn't get along. I need more than this. I just need a little more than this.

00:27:07 Jordan: Yeah, yeah. You know, my only complaint about the Eagle American Eagle ad was having a girl with no *** be the face of a jeans commercial. Doesn't really make sense to me, but whatever.

00:27:20 Darius: I think that's America's thing. Yeah, we can bring Keller on here and you know what? That's right.

00:27:28 Jordan: You know what? He's an *** man in from the South. I actually think he would. I think he would be on that side with that, but we'll bring it up Friday at the bar.

00:27:34 Darius: We'll table that one for later.

00:27:36 Jordan: Yeah, we'll say what.

00:27:39 Darius: Kobe Bryant, starving artist.

00:27:41 Jordan: Yes, Did you get a chance to watch the TikTok I sent you?

00:27:47 Darius: I did. And before you start, let me just content creators, brevity. That thing was 2 minutes and 40 seconds. It could have been 90 seconds. An editor once told me, never take 100 words when you can say the same thing in 30 words. He was a bit more eloquent than that. So brevity, it is a key to good content. So I said it after we spent 30 minutes on Sydney Sweeney, but carry on.

00:28:11 Jordan: That's okay. I saw Joe Budden talk about her ******* for 20 minutes on his podcast. So that's not, that's literally what he did. That's not even an exaggeration. But I'll take your word for it. I didn't listen to it. I just, I saw it and anyway. Yeah, so there was a creator on TikTok. He posted a video and he was talking about the concept of a starving artist versus a perfect, well, two forms of perfectionist. There's the starving artist and then there's kind of the Kobe Bryant type where he was kind of saying the starving artist is one who will, you maybe will see one of their point painting. They never really finish a painting or finish a masterpiece, quote unquote, because they're so busy tweaking and making edits and, you know, going over it again and again and started from scratch and things of that nature versus whereas there's a famous story of Kobe Bryant working on the same shot in the same spot on the floor for like an hour, you know, whereas obviously there's both levels of obsessiveness, but one is actually it's focusing on the reps and the result as opposed to the perfection of the rep. And I thought that was a really interesting conversation, especially considering like, you know, the content space and a lot of the creatives that I know we talk about a lot about like process by analysis and being perfectionist and how that can bleed into like procrastination and writer's block, things of that nature. So I thought that was a really it's just a table for an interesting conversation. So I wanted to get your thoughts on that.

00:29:33 Darius: So my my first thought was the starving artist. Is that perfectionism or is that fear of failure? Because once you put your art into the world, it's no longer yours.

00:29:44 Jordan: Great question. Correct.

00:29:46 Darius: You know, it's and you can't you it's you lose control. I mean, how long did it take for me to like let these podcasts go into the real world? We recorded for three months because it took me a while to get used to not have because once it's gone, it's gone. And yeah, you know, I'm a pretty private person and it it's scary. It really is. And so I think When someone says they're starving artists, they're a perfectionist. That is a very kind. It's a very rosy way to paint them saying they're just they have a fear of failure. And so, yeah, absolutely.

00:30:29 Jordan: You know, so same thing with procrastination.

00:30:31 Darius: Yeah. Because especially, I mean, it depends on the task, but you know. Right. It's hard to just to something that you cherish and you worked with for hours and hours, you put it into the world and like, it's no longer yours, you know, and yeah, what people say about it, what people do with it, how many people engage with it is totally out of your control. And all of the feedback is valuable at all, but most of it, you know, good and the bad will be valuable. And, you know, are you dealing with what comes with that is not easy. You know, Bo Bonnie Jones once said, Kobe Bryant's, the thing he admired the most about Kobe Bryant was that he just did not care about looking bad. Like Kobe Bryant released a rap song and he was a god-awful rapper. And he was just like, Bo Bonnie was like, the thing I admire the most is that he just doesn't care. That if he looks, he's just going to try and he's just that confident. Like I. Yeah. I mean, he was like an NBA player. He didn't have to do this. He just, I like to rap, so I'm gonna do it.

00:31:35 Jordan: Yeah.

00:31:36 Darius: So that's one Colin Kobe had. He had no fear of failure. It helps that he received a lot of success at a very young age. But true. No, I just think that the perfectionism can be just a way a different word, a synonym for fear of failure. So what do you think about it?

00:31:54 Jordan: Yeah, I definitely agree. Yeah, I thought the same thing you thought made me think about our process week week because I remember thinking like, I don't for me, this is my second time having a podcast, but also, me being a poet and performing and stuff like that. Like I know the struggles of, I know I'm very familiar with the fear of failure and t