12 Angry Men (1957)

Jordan: How'd you um break up your axe?

Darius: Which one?

Jordan: Oh, I thought you said break up with my ex... I think I've had one ex-girlfriend. I'm fucking 37 years old.

Darius: So when you were shotting at Anthony, what happened?

Jordan: Hey everybody, welcome to Out the Trunk with Jordan and Darius. My name is Jordan. Jordybe riding on all socials.

Darius: And I'm Darius, that's D's all up in your area on all socials.

Jordan: And today we're going to be reviewing 12 Angry Men. This movie came out in 1957. This is actually the oldest movie we've reviewed so far, so it is black and white, literally a classic movie.

Darius: Might be the oldest by like 30 years.

Jordan: Yeah, no, definitely. We haven't done any 70s movies yet. Yeah, definitely. Good 30 years. Maybe 40, shit. Did a lot of 90s movies. Um, it's starring legendary Henry Fonda, that's Jane Fonda's dad for those who don't know, Lee J. Cobb, Ed Begley, E.G. Marshall, Jack Warden, Martin Balsam, John Fiedler, Jack Klugman, Edward Binns, Joseph Sweeney, George Voskovec, and Robert Webber. 12 Angry Men follows a seemingly open and shut murder trial where 12 jurors retreat to a sweltering room to debate. While 11 are ready to convict a teenager for killing his father, one lone dissenter forces the group to reexamine the evidence. Tensions boil as personal prejudices collide with the pursuit of justice. So I'll toss it to you for Act 1.

Darius: Act 1, The Lone Voice. The jury enters a deliberation room and takes an initial vote, resulting in an 11-1 for guilty. Juror 8 stands alone, arguing that they owe the defendant a serious discussion before sending him to his death. Off the rip, let me just say to the people out there listening, never ever ever skip jury duty. Um, never ever ever skip jury duty. I know it's annoying. I know you don't want to do it, but it is your civic duty, unless you or your spouse are 9 months pregnant, take your ass down to the courthouse and sign up for jury duty. It is the only way this thing works. So, um, what you got for Act 1, man?

Jordan: Um, so I love this movie. This is one of my favorite movies of all time. I think it's literally a perfect movie. Um, it's less than 100 minutes and you have 12 fully fleshed out characters, excellent dialogue, excellent exposition, and there's like literally not a line wasted. Um, this movie does require multiple rewatches because that way you can kind of catch everything the plot is setting up in the first act all the way through the third, and everything literally comes full circle. Um, so I did want to say that. And, uh, it's also crazy that, uh, Henry Fonda didn't win an Oscar for this movie. Took him like 50 years to get his first Oscar. Um, I don't see how he didn't win one for this role.

Darius: This movie didn't win any Oscars, it went 0 for 3.

Jordan: Yeah, it's fucking nuts.

Darius: I don't know what beat it, I guess we could Google it, but um...

Jordan: Yeah.

Darius: Yeah, I agree. One of my favorite movies of all time. Um, I just love how it just it's so, it kind of exemplifies why our system, our legal system, is so much better than other countries, other peer countries, because you just have 12 regular people who are just... you're not... the state doesn't throw you away in theory. Um, 12 regular people have to think about it, and the evidentiary burden is high, it's beyond a reasonable doubt because it should be hard. It should be incredibly difficult for the state to deprive you of your freedom. And your life.

Jordan: You know, you know, it's not a bunch of scientists in there, it's not the state, it's just 12 regular people looking at the facts. The state gets to state their case, the defense gets to state their case. And, um, is it perfect? No, but I wouldn't have it any other way. So, I love this movie because it just, it shows the system working as it should.

Darius: Yes.

Jordan: And it shows people, one person with a healthy skepticism of the state, uh, just asking questions. And the more he asks questions, the more you see other people start to ask questions. And we should always be asking questions when the state wants to remove someone's freedom.

Darius: Correct.

Jordan: And so I just love it. I just, I just love how they set all that up and how they showed that. So. Um, what else you got for Act 1?

Darius: Um, act one. Um, so one thing I wish, I mean obviously it's 50s, that there wasn't really a lot of color at that time. Uh, no pun intended, color in the art of filmmaking, not the actors at the time. So, uh, I just wish uh there was a little more uh clarity on what the ethnicity of the kid was, because I couldn't tell if he was supposed to be Hispanic or Italian. Um...

Jordan: I think that was do you think that was intentional though?

Darius: It's possible. It's possible.

Jordan: Uh, I mean, I could just be imparting my 2026 sensibilities on a 1957.

Darius: 'Cause neither, yes I was going to say, 'cause neither nationality or ethnicity was considered white at that time period. Like even Italians at that time period were not considered white. Um, so it does make sense.

Jordan: And also, um, yeah, that's true. I don't... I lost my train of thought, but...

Darius: Yeah.

Jordan: Yeah, I think, well they didn't name the jurors and that felt intentional.

Darius: Yeah for sure, that was definitely intentional.

Jordan: And so I think they kept... I like to think that they kept the immutable characteristics of the people in the movie out of the movie because in theory justice is supposed to be colorblind. Uh, and that might be me putting 2026 onto 1957 sensibilities. It's hard to do that 'cause, again, this movie came out before our parents were born. So, I, you know, I literally can't... if a movie comes out 10 years ago, I can tell you what the world was like then and think about it, but I like to think that that was an intentional thing by the director. Is that justice is colorblind and we never got to know, you know, the names of the people in the room, it's just the facts are the facts and let's talk about the facts. And so...

Darius: I agree. That's a good point. I actually have something a topic about that I'm gonna bring up in Act 3. Um...

Jordan: Yeah, actually let me lead right into my next point about, uh, there's no character names.

Darius: Yep.

Jordan: At all. They're just literally the whole cast is Juror Number 1 through Juror Number 12. Um, I really love that because the only thing that this movie is truly about and the only thing that really matters, aside from obviously the the trial, is everyone's stories. Yep. 'Cause, you know, you go in there with your whole, you have your whole life that you've lived and you go into this room and you're supposed to throw away everything that you've thought prior to the trial starting about your inherent biases and um, you know, your triggers, things of that nature, but you know, we're human beings. And so we're flawed, therefore our decisions, our decision-making and our judgment and our system is going to be flawed, and I love the way that this uh, the movie illustrated that phenomenon.

Darius: Yeah, it's just supposed to be 12 ordinary people, you know, um, which can be a bit tricky. Uh, there's a uh, there's a viral Sebastian Maniscalco bit and um, it's hard to make me laugh with stand up, I'm not crazy about it, but he has this bit, he's like, I got called down to jury duty and I'm in the line and um, you know, these people like are just the craziest people, he's like, ladies get the sheet and she's like, "Name?" and they're looking like, "Huh?" and they're just like, one lady's like, "I have a condition" and like this one guy is just looking at the thing like it's in a different language and he says, "I think to myself, this... you guys are going to decide who goes to prison?"

Jordan: Right!

Darius: "And the fucking sign-up sheet confuses you?"

Jordan: Yeah!

Darius: It's so real, like 12 ordinary people can be 12 ordinary people.

Jordan: No, uh, so there's actually this really dope show that came out during the pandemic, I think it's called Jury Duty. I can't remember. It's got James Marsden in it. Where it's a the whole show is a prank. Where there's a fake trial and and there are 12 people on a jury. Only one guy there all... everybody's an actor except for this one guy, and just the most crazy shit happens. And so, um, there's this guy he was like trying to get out of jury duty 'cause you know nobody wants to do jury duty, and someone was like, "Just tell them you're racist. Just tell the judge you're racist and that you hate Black people."

Darius: And so, but that's the problem though, right? Like, the only people on juries are people who couldn't get out of jury duty. And the kind of people who couldn't get out of jury duty are the people who aren't smart enough to know how, or who don't have a job that they can go to, that that can get out of... And so that's why I say everyone should accept and enthusiastically do jury duty, because again, the only people on juries are people who don't who aren't smart enough to figure out how to get out of it. That's how it is right now. And so that's why it's your civic duty to get on there because right now, basically the only people who can get stuck doing jury duty are like 12 unemployed people who who can't Google "how do I get out of jury duty".

Jordan: So. That's why you should do it. Um, move want to head on to Act 2?

Darius: Uh... yeah, yeah.

Jordan: Alright. Act 2. We're going to call this Shifting the Tide. As the jurors meticulously break down the testimony of the witnesses, doubt begins to creep into the room. Heated arguments break out as more jurors change their votes, exposing deep-seated biases and personal flaws. Um... my note is redundant right there, so I'm gonna hand it to you. What you got for Act 2?

Darius: Okay, uh, so Act 2. Uh, I have... I love the point that they, the... I forget what his number is, but Henry Fonda, he brings up the point about basically having a public defender. And the strain that they're under, you know, like they're they're not getting paid very well, they may not have had the resources or the time to really put together a compelling case. Um, at this time period, again it's before CCTV, it's before you know, DNA and all that stuff, so you it really looks like an open and shut case. And you're, and you know, I think some member you mentioned it's this young defender, so it may have been the guy's first case and it's it's a death, you know, death penalty murder murder. Um, you know, um... I don't envy the people who do that work, and they get a lot of they get a lot of shit. But I mean they are just as underserved in certain respects as the people that they they represent, you know?

Jordan: The thing about um public defenders is, by and large, they're the best option available to you, they just don't have the time. And I say that to say that criminal defense in and of itself is not a lucrative practice. And so what happens when you like every so often you get like a famous one, like you know the one who does for all the rappers and like back then Johnnie Cochran. Right. By and large, if you are a person of means and you're hiring a firm to defend you in a criminal case, you're getting someone who doesn't practice criminal defense. They just, they practice other things and they're they're mapping over... they're good, they're probably, you know, fancy, have you know some white shoe law firm, but this is not their expertise. Public defenders, it is their expertise. Um, and so often they're better options, um, the caveat is if they have the time, and often they just don't. Um. And so the state gets unlimited resources to staff the prosecutor's office, and the defense just doesn't. Um, and so... I mean if you look at the average workload of a public defender, there's just no way they can zealously defend all their clients, and that's why you get so many plea deals. Um, and plea deals, I I don't even think should be constitutional. And so it gets... you get people pleeing out because they see their lawyers overwhelmed, and the state's throwing 10 years at them and saying, "Hey, you can take it to trial... you do two... and sometimes not even that, it'll be like, "Well, you can do a year plus time served and you'll be out in six weeks." And often these people can't post bail so they're already in jail. Right. And so someone saying you sign this piece of paper and plea, you get to go home today... what are you gonna do, you know? Right. You gonna sit in jail and try to fight this with your attorney who you see once a week who's dropping papers as they walk in 'cause they're so busy? Mm-hmm. Or you gonna sign that paper and go home? You know? Like it it's now what you don't know is that paper locks you in as a felon forever, and you're on, you know, probation and is, you know, you know what that is.

Darius: Right. But, again, you're poor, so you're in jail, you can't make bail, if you get a bond at all, and someone's saying you sign this you get to go home. Most people are gonna go home. You know, like most... it's like uh the scene from a line from Training Day, "You wanna go to jail, or you wanna go home?"

Jordan: Right, it's just, um, it's unfortunate. Um, it really is. But, what can you do? Do you think the kid was actually innocent, or did the jury just realize the prosecution didn't prove the case?

Darius: Mm... Um... I think... I think the kid was innocent. Yeah. I think the kid was innocent. Um, maybe it's just the casting, he just didn't look like a killer to me. Yeah. Um, you know, and, um, even just like the way like the way they broke it down, you know, there was this the part about the the el train where someone said, "I heard them arguing. I couldn't tell what they were arguing about, but I heard him strike him." It's like, so you didn't hear the words they were screaming but you heard a punch? Like that just doesn't that doesn't make sense.

Jordan: Eyewitnesses are just...

Darius: Yeah. You saw you saw through an el train at night, a guy getting stabbed and you like, you know, and the point with the knife about, you know... I was a big uh, I was a big like greaser fan, like the novels and stuff like that, that S.E. Hinton novels when I was a kid, so I loved like switchblades and shit like that. And the point about the knife is just dead accurate. No even if you use a switchblade, even if you hadn't killed someone before, you were never going to use it like this. Right. 'Cause that's just not the style that you use. Um, and again, even the point that the fact that the the juror was able to find an exact copy pretty much of the the knife at a pawn shop. Those things are obviously popular, everybody probably had one in that area of the city, so I mean it really could have been anybody.

Jordan: Um, I my thing is it just doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if he did it or not. True, that's true. The defense's job to prove if he did it, he didn't do it. Exactly. It's the prosecution's job to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he did do it. A lot of people think the defense has to put up an alternative explanation, and they don't. Right. They just have to poke holes in the the prosecution's story. And so, I don't know whether he did it or not, (laughs) you know, sometimes the truth is stranger than fiction. Um, is it unusual to hold a knife that way? Yes, but stranger things have happened. I mean, yeah, spot on. Yeah. You know, um, but the point of the movie I think is that it just doesn't matter. You know, right. I mean I agree, I think the same thing. Um, and...

Darius: We have to make it really hard to take someone's freedom, and part of that is the prosecution has to do their, they have a hard job, and they didn't do their job. So.

Jordan: Right. Um, yeah I agree. And then also even, you know, with the like the the knife thing, it's like okay so he was dumb enough to leave the knife but smart enough to wipe it off? Like it just some of the the the it just there were a lot of fallacies there um in the the execution of the crime if you will, no pun intended. Um.

Darius: Though you'd be surprised how dumb criminals are man. Like I I've heard of stories where um a home invasion one of the person people left their ID. Like...

Jordan: Literally, um, like I don't know how why they took their ID out, but they literally left their ID at the crime scene. And if I told you that, you'd be like, "Who what kind of person..." I've literally heard of that story, where like, I don't know if it fell out their wallet, but like the cops showed up to the crime scene and like, the criminal's ID was there.

Darius: Imagine they have you in the in the uh interrogation room, you're like, "No, I what, I didn't do it. I was at a restaurant." And they're like, "Sir, here's your ID." Just slap it on the table.

Jordan: I would I would be like, "Hey, okay, I'll admit to it, but can y'all like lie and say y'all had something else, so my mom and them don't..." Can we just come up with something a bit more clever. I'm a criminal either way, but please don't let them know I'm stupid.

Darius: And imagine you go to jail and that word spreads around, and they're like, "Yeah this nigga left his ID at the scene of the crime." "Left his ID!" Name, picture, height, eye color, weight, address... address... license number.

Jordan: You might as well just leave and go to the police station.

Darius: Yeah.

Jordan: Say, "Hey I committed a crime today. Hey Brenda, is dispatch 'cause I did it."

Darius: Yeah.

Jordan: You might as well leave the crime and go straight to the police station and turn yourself in. Um. What else you got for Act 2, man?

Darius: Um, oh yeah, so I love the scene where uh they were talking about like he screamed, "I want to kill him", and he's like, you know, he obviously meant it. No one says that without meaning it, and then he baited him into screaming, "I'm gonna kill you!" Yeah. And then at the end he's like, "You didn't really mean that." Uh this movie has some of the best one-liners ever.

Jordan: Yeah, I mean, you have to be tricky with that because, you know, I'm so mad I could kill him, like okay, but like...

Darius: Right.

Jordan: That's why I'm always skeptical of like screenshots out of context as some sort of evidence of wrongdoing, um, because... you'd be surprised how crazy you look screenshot out of context. Um, and you might have nine months of a conversation where you've set the tone and and so on and so forth and like this is how y'all talk, but someone's looking at six messages in the middle of that... Yeah. With no other context. And it looks like you're begging or something like that. Yeah it's just you I'm show the whole like I'm, you know, I never trust out of context screenshots like that. So.

Darius: That's true.

Jordan: Um, anything else for Act 2?

Darius: Um, no that was all I had for Act 2.

Jordan: Well moving into Act 3, we're gonna call this The Final Verdict. The remaining holdouts face intense pressure as the logic of the prosecution's case crumbles. A final confrontation forces the last guilty voter to face his internal demons before the group reaches a unanimous decision. I loved the scene of them breaking down how hard it is to remember details. Um...

Darius: Yes.

Jordan: It's so much harder than people think. Um, and that's why, you know, defense attorneys say do not talk to the police. Even if you're innocent. Because um, you think it's easy to remember what you had for lunch last Tuesday, and I promise you it's not. Right. You know, it's like you know someone says asks me you know, "Where were you at 4 o'clock last Thursday?" I might say the gym 'cause I go to the gym every afternoon, but was that 4:15? Or okay let's say I say that, but I went to the gym at 4:15, and someone says, "Well no I heard him in his apartment at 4 o'clock." He said he was at the gym. But like my mind just thinks 4 o'clock is gym, but I might have left at 4:15. You know, like you it's just...

Darius: And I think you lied about everything.

Jordan: And now it sounds like you're lying, but no that's just not how the like I just told you a stock answer and I didn't time it to the minute, but for whatever reason I was 10 minutes behind and I went to the gym at 4:15 and now a neighbor's like, "Well I heard him in his room at 4 o'clock, he said he was..." And now you're like, that's why you just don't talk. You know, so... What you got for Act 3, man?

Darius: Yeah, uh, that's one of my favorite scenes in the movie. Um, I also, uh, so I love this love this movie. For several reasons, one of the things I love about this movie is everyone in the cast is you can tell they're all at their core good hum- most of them are good human beings. Yeah. And they just have their shit that they just their baggage and shit that they have to deal with. Um, and I feel like there's I don't know if it's just 'cause it was the 50s and there's like the nostalgia of, you know, a certain kind of manners and things of that nature, but like the fact that that guy went on a racist rant and they all just stood up and literally turned their back.

Jordan: And this is in the 50s. And it's like, man, maybe it wasn't that bad, but you know it was that bad. But you know it was that bad, but it was just kind of interesting to see that 'cause today that's just that's so okay now it feels like, and I know it was okay then too 'cause it was the 50s and we know what the sort of rights looked like back then. But it's just it's just interesting to to see that.

Darius: Color in the film. It's a movie. So...

Jordan: Oh for sure, yeah, yeah, it's a movie.

Darius: Two, I'm guessing the just the characters in the movies, I don't think they stated their occupations, but like these looked like came off as just like well to do, high society people. Um, I'm I'm thinking it was in I believe it was in New York. New York which is, you know, progressive. These weren't 12 jurors in rural Mississippi. We'll put it like that.

Jordan: Yeah, yeah, yeah, true. Just to set say it like that. Um... you know, so. Um, yeah, I just... I don't really have anything other than as the kids say "glazing" for Act 3 'cause it's just perfect when it's just asking him, "What movie did you go see?" and like he gets shakier and shakier...

Darius: Who was in it? Who was in the movie? What was the what was the second feature?

Jordan: And people watching today who might go to three movies a year don't understand that going to the movies is just it was like picking up takeout. You know, like it was just what you did, and so this idea that like you would remember the specific movie you saw and who was in it and that's it was a different time. Going to the movie is is what you did you know on your way home from work. And as a matter of fact type thing, and so I just it's just one of my favorite things about um, one of my pet, one of my hobby horses is just how inaccurate people's memories are actually are... especially like long-term things are are different, but like the minor details like what specifically you ate, what you ordered, um you know, where your location was, it's harder than you think. Yes. And especially when you're in an interrogation room and you think you're you're these you're untrained, they're trained. They do 10 of these a day, you don't. This is the first time you've ever been in that box. I promise you won't hold up as well as you think.

Darius: Yeah, no, even if like I I got mugged when I was like 18, and they brought me in to you know give a statement and shit whatever, and I've been in the the room with the two-way mirrors and shit, and I didn't do anything wrong! Yeah. But I'm in that room and I'm just like a little nervous and you're like, you know what I mean, it's...

Jordan: Your heart's like right here. Yeah.

Darius: Yeah, and it's like they were showing me looking having me look through photos of people that I thought did it, and one of the guys I'm pretty sure was the guy, but I was like, well, if I'm wrong this person goes to jail... yeah, I could be ruining somebody's life. So I really wasn't sure. He's like scale 1 to 10. I was like, I think I said maybe like a 7 or some shit like that, but you know, it could have been. It could have been anybody. And so yeah that it's a really uh a really tricky system and a really tricky craft, you know solving crimes and things of that nature that people don't really... it's not it's not like the movies, you know what I'm saying.

Jordan: No, it's not at all. Um, yeah, and and the thing is people who never who don't know anything about it would just say like, well why'd you lie? If you weren't if you weren't at the gym at 4 o'clock and you went at 4:15, why did you just say you went at 4:15? And it's like it's not how the brain works.

Darius: No. Yeah, yeah. But it's easy I mean, it's intuitive to wonder like I know when I went to work, if it was 7:15 or 7 o'clock. You do until you don't, you know? Like...

Jordan: Right. Yeah it's it's very easy to get that shit twisted. Like think about it like say like we work, we both work remote. So we can say certain time of day during the work day, we were at home. Right. But if they were to ask you what you were doing at 4:35 p.m.? Or 7:37 p.m.? What room in your house were you at? You might have went to the bathroom for a second and you thought you were at your at your monitor typing a prompt for the pod. Is is that easy. It is, and one inconsistency and now you're a liar.

Darius: Yeah, you're fine.

Jordan: And now everything you say is in question. And so. And then the juror jury sees that and then that again, similar to this movie, they're like, "Well, that's a hole." Yeah. And that's why defend a lot of defendants just don't take the stand. Um, 'cause if you take the stand, you got to do the the prosecution gets to question you as well, and it's hard to look good, especially when you're not ready for it, so. Right. Um, what else you got for Act 3, man?

Darius: Um, so I was gonna say, so yeah, so I think one thing that makes this movie difficult to judge in terms of the characters is all of the jurors are white men. Yeah. And so they were more respectful, they were talking crazy to each other, but they were probably more respectful than they would have been in that time period to other genders and races. And it kind of makes it almost a little harder 'cause you almost wonder, I think back now I'm like if there was if it was a mixed jury, or if that movie was made today with a with a truly diverse uh set of jurors, would they have been as open to each other's opinions? Would would they have been able to even conceive of the possibility of coming to the same conclusion, like in this movie.

Jordan: I just I mean, it depends on the case. Um... I like to think so. I do. Um, people obviously have their prejudices and their priors and their, you know, preconceived notions, I just said the same thing three times. But, um... you know, you get in that box and you're tasked with taking someone's freedom, I like to think that most people, if they've gotten that far in the situation, would take it seriously. Um... yeah. Um... you know, like I said, it's a big responsibility and obviously it's 12 random people. This is random and it isn't like you're jury is selected, um, and both sides get strikes, and um, so I don't know. Obviously it would be different 'cause you're bringing in any dynamic to a situation, especially one as potent as race, it changes things, but I like to think that most people in that situation would take the job seriously. So.

Darius: I feel you.

Jordan: It's rare that I see a high profile case that I think was just like outright wrong. Like I think the OJ trial was just... I don't know how nine people could listen to that evidence and say innocent, but um, like Casey Anthony, I don't think the prosecutors proved that case. I think she did it, but I don't think they proved their case. Oh yeah, she definitely did it, for sure. And so the jury is not tasked with uh anything but determining if the prosecution proved their case. And um, Casey Anthony was not a a lovable, you know, defendant, and and so, but the facts were the facts and the prosecution didn't prove their case. And so... yeah. You have to do what you have to do as a jury. You have to take your job seriously and you have to acquit. Even though I think she did it, I would have voted to acquit, given that's the evidence that they had, so.

Darius: And and the thing too is that's also kind of a Catch-22 with the death penalty is most people are not prepared to send someone off to die. Yeah. Especially if there's like a if there's a a speck of doubt, that's some shit that you keep would keep you up at night for the rest of your life, you know?

Jordan: That's why I don't believe in the death penalty. It's not 'cause I don't believe some crimes are are heinous enough to kill people over, I just don't trust the state to pick and choose. Um, and yeah. Life without parole is fine. I don't like why do we need to, you know, you're gonna sit in a room the sizes of a closet with another man and a bathroom for the rest of your life, like I don't need that's fine. We're good with that. Like you know. So, and you know, that's why when people, whenever there's a death penalty case and death penalty advocates and and abolitionists is, you know, at the last minute it's about time to execute, and they there's always someone on the internet who like looks at the crime and they go, "Um, you know this is I'm I'm out on this one. This one's terrible." And it's like, the problem with uh death penalty advo- advocates and and abolition is that there are no good cases. No one goes on death row for traffic tickets. And so if you're waiting around for a sympathetic victim, you'll never do any work. You know, like it's what do you think people go on death row for? They're all heinous crimes. And so you have to have a principled objection to it, otherwise you'll never do any active advocacy 'cause there's never going to be any good cases that are like there maybe in a blue moon you'll find one where it's obvious, but for the most part you're advocating for true people who've done terrible things. Um, and so you either you're in or you're out, 'cause if you're waiting around for a good one, you'll never do any work. You know?

Darius: Facts. Um... did you have a favorite juror?

Jordan: Nah, really. Um... I guess the guy um who who the short guy with the knife and he stood up and he's like showing how the angles wouldn't have worked. I thought that was pretty cool, um, bringing physical evidence, but nah man, it's hard to pick a favorite when I just everything was so well acted and so professional and and it did it felt like I was watching documentary footage. It didn't feel like a movie.

Darius: No, you kind of forget.

Jordan: Yeah, and so uh, I guess that's my question to you. You know, this is obviously considered one of the greatest films of all time, and why do you think it it resonated so well and why do you think it held up so well?

Darius: Um... because it showed it's probably one of the best examples I've seen in a in a movie of literally just people. Yes. Like the complexities, the the beauty, the ugliness, the the judgment, the redemption, the love, the hate, the bigotry, the the grace, you know, it just it showed literally every spectrum of human emotion, of human behavior. Um, there was a point where you could look at every just about everybody in the movie and say like they were they were in the wrong. And then that same person, you could say here's where they did the right thing. And I think that's that's probably what I think is so so poignant about the movie. It also just it aged really well. Like it doesn't it doesn't feel like 50s. You know it doesn't feel like "Right here, Shay!", you know like it doesn't feel like that.

Jordan: It feels it wasn't in black and white I it like, I mean the suits are a bit are fancy for the time, but like other than everybody being suited and booted, nothing feels like 1957 in it. Um...

Darius: Exactly. And uh, I don't know if you did you know that there's a there's a remake that came out in 97. uh and that cast is loaded too and it's it's really, really good, it pretty much holds up. Um, yeah I think that it's just one of those stories where it's just a story about the human experience. And I think there's there's very there's very few things more dramatic than that, you know? Like it's it's basically I view it almost as like a sociology exp